Dec. 21, 2012

[Sri Lanky]

Why can't you be an evolutionist and creationist?

Evolution = spirit in action

[Kurt]

Well, according to the ancient Mexican Mayan civilization, it's the end of the 5th sun. The Maya were known to have a very accurate calendar. Apparently, at present the Maya are very fearful of the aforementioned date. Around the year 800 they abandoned their major cities, there still is no clear answer why they did that.

Yah there is a very clear answer why they did that. It was the failure of the milpa system of slash and burn agriculture. Its well documented. Basicially the jungle could only support so many simultanious corn fields and there was not enough time to fallow to have a productive year when the population got to a critical point. That combined with a milenial "drought" in a rain forest caused the collapse of their society. The Olmec of the same area collapsed in a similar fashion but instead of taxing the forest through slash and burn agriculture they had a climate change brought about around 530 AD that was brought on by the eruption of the Krakatao volcano. Both societies had a king/priest class that took credit for a good harvest and demanded blood for a bad one. A few years of bad ones and blood made the peopel realise that their elite class was full of shit and they smashed them after years of famine and were likely driven off into the jungle or subjegated by other more "primative" tribes.

I wrote a senior thesis about this in 1990 and Jared Diamond wrote about it in "Collapse" ...It is well documented but some prefer to believe the "Von Daniken" based theories simply because they have not heard of any others.

Before Erich Von Daniken became an "archeaoligist" he was a petty scam artist and an embezzler.

[NIJ]

Also, the 9th century has absolutely nothing to do with the upcoming reset of the long count and the only calendrically significant event that occurred in that century was the ending of the 10th baktun and the beginning of the 11th.

Regarding what Kurt said he is almost certainly correct. Although there are still a few scholars who disagree they are getting to be very few indeed as more and more evidence surfaces to support the ecological collapse theory.

David Webster addresses these competing theories pretty well in his often updated book 'The Fall of the Ancient Maya'.

For more on the Mayan calendar and its significance in their religion I would suggest Linda Schele's 'Maya Cosmos: Three Thousand Years on the Shaman's Path'.

For a good, accessible overview of the ancient Maya Michael Coe's often updated 'The Maya' is an excellent beginning and Linda Schele's 'A Forest of Kings' is a bit more involved.

[NIJ]

Yes I'm a Maya nerd.

[Kurt]

The Maya were cool. Definately nerdworthy material.

I am a medieval migration nerd (from 530AD to about 1200AD) and a Norse exploration and conquest nerd (another thing that really affected Europe).

[Kurt]

Another thing I like about the Maya is that they show the end product of the corn (tamale) in their artwork quite often. It is integrated with religious symbols as well, something that did not come about in Europe until commissioned artwork around the 1600's (usually bread and the then exotic pineapple). This showed that the priest class was directly speaking to their subjects with the end product of the harvest, since like most civilisations the division of labor made it so a majority of the people were not farmers but consumers.

[Sri Lanky]

My brother is heading to the Yucatan in January. I don't think he has any real interest in the Mayans because he said the main reason he's going there is because checking out the temples will keep him from drinking himself to death on the beach.

[tlcfj40]

What coldharvest said.


I'll probably be stressing out over Christmas shopping, bitching about my job, lack of money, etc.

[tlcfj40]

What coldharvest said.


And of course, I'll probably be stressing out over Christmas shopping, bitching about my job, lack of money, etc.

[Wayne]

If the past is any indication I should have my Christmas shopping for that year done and will be basking in the satisfaction.

[dagrimes]

The day my Ex-Wife Dies, Ha, Ha, Ha, I mean nothing , Nothing at all.