what if the nazis won the war?

[JamesInTheWorld]

Palestine would be a large peaceful country perhaps

hahahahahahahahahaahahahaahahahahaahahaahah!!!!!!!!



~JITW

[Caliban]

I hate canada and nazi's...

So...Canadian Nazis.....discuss

[Caliban]

But points to what I've been ranting about - Himmler's SS now incarnated on the megalithic corporate and banking scene, eh? Like I've said, take a look at what's going on with world economies - collective privatization in the USA bigger and better even than nationalist/socialism for the clout it weilds. Breeches all political trade barriers too, unites the fucking place under economic fascism - same as Nazi Walmart beat the shit out of competition. Same is true for microsoft, dell, etc... nevermind the oil companies. ...


Yeah, it's great to finally adress the Nazi egregore here at the THC... What I want to know: Where can actual bloodline lineal descendants of Himler's SS be found? Is there a fraternity of em much as OSS Veterans include sons and daughters in their ranks? There's been alot of bogus shit written about Himmler's SS over the past 50 yrs. Would be fun to meet up with actual pedigreed offspring who've no doubt shucked the Hitler game, same as Himmler ditched the fuhrer and bailed on the bunker. Also conspired for yrs to reconnoitre a decent end to the war....

I think it comes down to the fact that once all the unpalatable aspects of the Nazi regime were cleared away the Allied victors, primarily the European goverments, realised that the socio economic "visions" of the Nazis were the only viable option for a powerful Europe.

I have no doubt that the mindset, inherited or learnt, of the descendants of the Nazi regime have played a part in that restructuring of modern europe (a mind set somewhat remolded by De nazification immediately after the war but still in essence the same)

As for the offspring of those members of "the master race" I can't comment on but I can comment on the originals, several of whom I have know. Through mutual aqcaintance I have had contact with former members of 12SS. Young men at the end of the war and having lived most of their lives in the Nazi regime.

The overwhelming thing I have from those meetings is that they did not think themselves supermen. The doctrine that they had ben brought up to believe in was that they were the protectors of a Europe from the "communist mence". They found it difficult to understand why they were fighting against the Allies when they should have been fighting side by side.

Granted, the passage of time will have had an impact on what they recall about their upbringing, what they were taught, what they believed in but it is clear when they talk that they all still hold strong belief that they were fighting communism. In that respect it is immediately obvious that they are unrepentant.

When the subject comes around to the Nazi regime they all say it is something that was just there, in the same way as any Government. They did not see it as something good or evil. It was the government. They had seen the political wrongs of the previous generation put right, they had been told that there was an enemy at the door and that they were the tool that would save Europe. Not told that they were supermen but that they were an instrument of salvation.

The strange thing is that while they now accept that they were duped or at the least tools of a flawed regime they do not feel that they were betrayed or wrong to fight and that it was their stand that makes Europe what it is today. Not surprisingly it is strongest in the ones who stayed in England because they could not go home because their home was behind the Iron curtain

Not once have any of them come across as a political animal or a Super human, or a believer in master race. Just boys and men who were given a cause to believe in and fight for.

The pity is in the fact that their cause was Nazism.

[el3so]

Where can actual bloodline lineal descendants of Himler's SS be found? Is there a fraternity of em much as OSS Veterans include sons and daughters in their ranks? There's been alot of bogus shit written about Himmler's SS over the past 50 yrs.

Must have read over this.
Flemish ex-Waffen SS members still congregate, think they call themselves "Berkenkruis" (birch cross). They volunteered for what eventually became known as the 27th SS-Freiwilligen-Grenadier-Division Langemarck.

Through mutual aqcaintance I have had contact with former members of 12SS. Not told that they were supermen but that they were an instrument of salvation.

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that things have turned pear-shape if salvation in 1944 is to come from kids born in 1927.

But yeah, the "defeating communism" angle was heard a lot afterwards. Wether the cancer was worth the cure, we'll never know.

[Caliban]

Doesn't take a rocket scientist to know that things have turned pear-shape if salvation in 1944 is to come from kids born in 1927. .

Indeed so, to demonstrate their youth and naivety despite being considered the military elite I quote a story from one old guy,Karl, who lives near me, over in North Wales . His was an east Prussian farming family and he couldn't go back home after the war, not even for his parents' funerals (Made him very bitter).

He relates how he and five or six others were captured after escape from Failaise. They had escaped from the defensive position in a girls school in Falaise (the last group to do so - 90 odd wounded defenders who remained died in its bombardment and fire) and made their way across the railway sidings during the night out of the Falaise pocket.

Because they had not eaten for days and finding themselves in an orchard they gorged on apples. Now Normandy apples are great for cider and Calvados brandy but not for young empty stomachs ! With raging stomach aches they presented themselves at the Farm house and with their Germanic upbringing to be courteous, politely asked if they could recover in the farmers barn. He agreed...and then promptly went and told nearby Canadian troops where they could pick up half a dozen fine examples of the master race sound asleep, like the babies they almost were, in his barn.

Their good fortune was an officer turning up very shortly after capture as Karl is convinced that th Canadian troops were going to despatch them there and then (This was after all just a few weeks after the disclosure of the murder of Canadian prisoners by SS at the Abbey Ardenne near Caen)

[nowonmai]

You can tell Karl (who missed his parents funeral) that my Mum never saw her Dad's funeral because he was killed just outside Falaise (and just before it closed) by Karl and his mates. The family home had been destroyed in 41 so she lived in pre-fabs until the early 50s when they were allocated a flat, which I visited on a trip down memory lane only the other week.

So he shouldn't feel too bitter. If my Nan had met him he wouldn't be feeling anything at all.

[Caliban]

But thats what war does isn't it.

His bitterness was towards the Russians who wouldn't allow him to return home after the war was over.

He has nothing but respect and thanks to Britain and the British who forgave him and gave him a new homeland for the rest of his life. He married a Welsh girl, became a postman in North wales and since his retirement gives up his spare time at a Pony stables, near where he lives, that caters to advancement and rehabilitation of disbaled children. I don't think he has anything to apologise for.

[nowonmai]

I'm not saying he should apologise to anyone, I'm just saying that he hasn't got the right to be bitter. I've lived in Europe on and off and known many a wartime German and often talked through to the early hours with them about war, death and redemption. I know men who endured far worse than Karl - some who emerged only from Russia in the mid 50s - and the best of them accept it as their fate and part of their punishment. It seems to me that if Karl is still dripping about it then he could be the type of German who is just pissed that he didn't win the war and does not accept the heinous nature of Germany's crime. There are plenty of them out there.

[Wayne]

Canadian Nazi = Harold Ballard?

(Perhaps only Maple Leafs fans will know whereof I speak.)

[APBT]

Lost? Hell, we have allowed every Nazi scientist, doctor, industrialist, and millionaire etc. to either become citizens of Allied countries or advance themselves in the "new" Germany becoming leaders, power bankers...
It was the same with Japan. The US with the help of McArthur sought out the same power mongers in Japan and advanced their agendas as long as they did bidding for the US.
Do you think it's odd that the BIG American financial, industrial own financial and working stock in Japanese and German corporations? I laugh when Americans get worried about this buy out and that buy out of American companies by foreign entities. Shit the global market is so corkscrewed with US investment money and US board members holding the reins that in the end everything is US owned.
And if you don't believe that go along your merry way and believe what ever makes you happy.