lost in space

[Pam]

Our predictions and speculations about it now, in the future will make us look like witch-doctors with bones through our noses.

Exactly how I see it. I do not judge others on their beliefs nor would I try to convince them differently. I have always believed that if it works for you then it's right for you.

Quote:
Our destiny is in the Stars.


Very true.

That is a very wise prediction.

[Pam]

Our predictions and speculations about it now, in the future will make us look like witch-doctors with bones through our noses.

Exactly how I see it. I do not judge others on their beliefs nor would I try to convince them differently. I have always believed that if it works for you then it's right for you but that does not mean I believe the same thing as you.

Quote:
Our destiny is in the Stars.


Very true.

That is a very wise prediction.

[denise]

fansy, love, you are talking about me on a thread i haven't even visited, tsk. tsk. apparently, it is extremely difficult on the psyche and emotions to undergo a change of ones understanding of their reality no matter what that change may be, with the potentially resulting bitterness being the greatest enemy. this is something we both seem to understand, although i don't know what you were like before and vice versa.

flipflop, has it ever occured to you that a civilization that advanced would consider seeding potential locations for future colonization, having already understood the mechanics required to do so?

[denise]

the really ironic thing is if i possessed the capability to destroy the atheistic assumption, i would only do it if i felt it absolutely necessary for the benefit of humanity.

i would also consider that to be a decision requiring more personal responsibility than i might care to shoulder.

i hope these men you revere have considered their position as seriously.

[el3so]

They said that each person you encounter in your life are people that you have probably had many lives with. When I have done past life regressions my husband, son and daughter are often in those lives in different roles.

So basically the same mix of assholes, good people and 95% passers-by all over again?
How many times in a row?

Sounds pretty bland as afterlifes go IMO.
I'll settle for being put into the ground with all the other crap so as to brighten up the topsoil when my lights go out.

Fair deal in a non-personal kind of way.

By then I was freaking out thinking this person was crazy.

Sounds more like swingerski's to me.
Hope I ain't too far off time-wise but this happened in the vicinity of the Summer of Love, no?

[el3so]

as a means to avoid the vertigo-like confrontation with personal demons which have plagued her throughout her life.

But other than hypothetical personal demons and excluding the loony sh!t where you think of the sky as a hole, and well, death being a given,

I, for example, don't have to give a fuck if there is a God or not and will still probably end up impregnating some dumb drunk whore in the next 3 to 5 years, while my erection lasts. Grand-scheme illusion doesn't necessarily need to come into play in this genetic reproduction scenario, unless you're talking about me spittin my game up at the bar.

Dumb and drunk equals gullible and blurred vision. And as long as it doesn't involve a sock, chances are once she decides she wants to see your wang there's gonna be philips head friction anyway...

Unless she is an urologist.

[el3so]

crap, no editing at the TFH.

as a means to avoid the vertigo-like confrontation with personal demons which have plagued her throughout her life.

But other than personal demons and excluding the loony sh!t where you think of the sky as a hole, and, well, death being a given, there's nothing other than the local set of guilt and shame to keep one from feeling down once most of the basic/biological needs are met, right?

Are the personal demons mandatory?

[denise]

my own personal demons, would that be the opposite of my own personal Jesus? really, fansy, i'm much more concerned with my own personal weakness.

the point is, people who "believe" or "have faith", which is the vast majority of those who subscribe to any point of view, have a legitimate out. i was not provided with a legitimate out, i have been extended the possibility of making a true choice, and there is a difference between the two.

truly, the whole thing is pretty damn funny as i really haven't been presented with many opportunities for actual decision making in my life, so we shall see.

[coldharvest]

was not provided with a legitimate out, i have been extended the possibility of making a true choice, and there is a difference between the two.

the endpoint remains the same so the route chosen is moot.

[denise]

not to the chooser, and hopefully not to the choosee :)

one of those options has meaning.

[coldharvest]

one of those options has meaning.

Apparently

[Fansy]

fansy, love, you are talking about me on a thread i haven't even visited, tsk. tsk.

In my defense, I mentioned this post in the other thread and suggested you take a look at it. It was made before those in that other thread as well. I sorta wanted to ambush you with it, but I was pulled into the other thread before it had the chance. I ruined the surprise!!!

apparently, it is extremely difficult on the psyche and emotions to undergo a change of ones understanding of their reality no matter what that change may be, with the potentially resulting bitterness being the greatest enemy. this is something we both seem to understand, although i don't know what you were like before and vice versa.

Bitterness is a positive emotion in my opinion. I sometimes feel I've been robbed of the majority of what I should feel.

But, I think at least one stark difference between our two experiences was that I arrived at my current position by opening up a portion of my brain, critical thinking, and then reviewing the evidences. You, on the otherhand, shut down that portion, and decided the facts weren't important.

Personally, I'd rather live in a world where they are. Completely arbitrary, I know, just as you prefer God or whatever, so we all have our little foibles.

my own personal demons, would that be the opposite of my own personal Jesus? really, fansy, i'm much more concerned with my own personal weakness.

That's generally what the expression means. If you were having fun with a clever twist of words, I'll understand.

the point is, people who "believe" or "have faith", which is the vast majority of those who subscribe to any point of view, have a legitimate out. i was not provided with a legitimate out, i have been extended the possibility of making a true choice, and there is a difference between the two.

truly, the whole thing is pretty damn funny as i really haven't been presented with many opportunities for actual decision making in my life, so we shall see.

That's a perspective.

It's generally agreed that people who perceive themselves to be in control of their lives report to be happier, more fulfilled, energetic, healthy, etc, etc. They prefer games based on skill and practice over games of pure luck. They take tend to avoid risky behavior but take calculated risks if there would be a healthy return from the risk-reward operation. They tend to take more responsibility for their actions and personal situation, and view the personal decision making process as the ultimate implementation of free will.

The alternate, fatalist perspective is held by people who report to be less happy with their lives, feel less in control, tend more towards depression and risky behavior, and enjoy games of luck over games that require the effort of tactics and skill. They tend to view events around them as having control over their lives, as opposed to seeing their personal decisions as a mode of control. They tend to feel less responsible for their personal situation and take less responsibility for their actions, as they view these things to be more of a product of their environment than a product of themselves.

I'm not saying you can change your perspective, but, theoretically, that's all you would need to do to effect the rest of those awesome benefits.

I would also say that your perspective is certainly justified as far as everyone is justified in believing whatever they want to about their past.

[Fansy]

as a means to avoid the vertigo-like confrontation with personal demons which have plagued her throughout her life.

But other than personal demons and excluding the loony sh!t where you think of the sky as a hole, and, well, death being a given, there's nothing other than the local set of guilt and shame to keep one from feeling down once most of the basic/biological needs are met, right?

Humanity's mistake was consciousness coupled with reasoning. We began to question, remember our questions, and come up with possible answers. Most of the time, these answers came from a deep biological tract that was more powerful than any reasoning capability we had developed. Eventually, as reasoning and consciousness as we know it were honed, someone asked, "Why do I have to do this shit everyday if I don't want to?", "Why do I have to experience pain?", in essence, "Why do I have to keep living?" This lead to a thought process that had long ago been short-circuited by biological instinct of survival through the institution of life-furthering illusions. People answered themselves, "Because it's better to live than to die."

Unfortunately people have come up with a millions of ways to say this without ever having proven it. That is, most people were able to say this because most people weren't given the set of reasoning skills to evaluate the statement with any kind of rigor.

I mean to say there are things that we have not quite mastered in terms of our species well-being, and included among these are striking up a balance between inquisitiveness and satisfaction, the ability to reason and reduce without falling into nihilism, and other hard-coded, immediate gene-based issues like diseases, especially those neurological in nature, behavioral oddities, addiction, etc. These are demons almost everyone faces in one way or another; without some veil separating us from what should be their logical conclusions (in many instances, that life is pointless and not worth living in that death is possibly less painful than current circumstances), our species would be in greater peril than it already is.

Are the personal demons mandatory?

Personal demons will be present to anyone who has walked to the edge of the cliff of existence and existentialism and made it back in one piece. They are not mandatory for a life-continuing illusion to be accepted in the first place (social pressure is usually sufficient), but for those intrepid few among us who fail to believe the first time around, these demons work as a last ditch effort to scare us back to a semblance of meaningful existence, wherein we can procreate and replicate and play our social role as life requires.

As with all last ditch efforts, they often fail (resulting in the destruction of the genetic stuffs of the individual), or perhaps succeed only to leave permanent damage on the mind of the person who was forced to witness them.

[Fansy]

one of those options has meaning.

Apparently

Wishful thinking. Is-Ought problem/fallacy.

[coldharvest]

Human salvation lies in the hands of the creatively maladjusted.