Question:Jesus

[redharen]

Flavius Josephus?

Do you have a serious answer or should I start quoting the National Enquirer when we debate Bigfoot?

Why do you not view him as credible? Josephus wrote about a lot more than Jesus -- in fact, Jesus hardly gets a mention in his histories -- and a lot of serious scholars lean heavily on his works. All ancient historians are taken with a grain of salt, anyway, so I'm not sure what you're looking for when you want a serious answer.

Regarding Luke's account of the census, you quoted either the website of a dude named Joseph Alward or someone on answering-christianity.com (I'm not sure which plagiarized from the other), both of whose scholarship and motivations I would rank somewhere around the Enquirer, if not below.

I don't care. Personally, if you want to rely on random Internet experts to tell you that Jesus never existed, I won't lose any sleep. It's just a lot less tenable position than the one that simply says he did exist, but he wasn't who he claimed to be.

[Sri Lanky]

I don't know if he existed or not but one thing for sure,his moral message is a lot better than mine....mine is a bit guttural.

[coldharvest]

if you want to rely on random Internet experts to tell you that Jesus never existed

I doubted the existence of Jesus before the Internet but nice backhanded insult.
My own research in pursuit of my degrees has led me to a different conclusion.

Regarding Luke's account of the census

Please, feel free to show me this census.
Feel free to show me the tax that was levied from the information gathered.

a lot of serious scholars lean heavily on his works

I know they do.

[denise]

My own research in pursuit of my degrees has led me to a different conclusion.

You've got 'big ol' philistine' written all over you.

[coldharvest]

My own research in pursuit of my degrees has led me to a different conclusion.

You've got 'big ol' philistine' written all over you.

Oh no I don't Kool-Aid drinker....you have no clue in regard to my religious pedigree.

[denise]

well, from the brief period of time i've read your writings, my understanding is that you are a muslim who is vehemently opposed to the catholic church and doesn't believe in the existence at any time in history of the most famous person in the world, known to many as Our Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ.

[Sri Lanky]

I thought it was Jesus H. Christ...and what the hell does that H stand for anyways?

[redharen]

I doubted the existence of Jesus before the Internet but nice backhanded insult.

You know I love you bro...I only dish 'em out 'cause I know you can take 'em. A backhanded insult, after all, is technically a compliment, much as a backhanded compliment is actually...well, you know.

My own research in pursuit of my degrees has led me to a different conclusion.

And this I would find more credible, although I would probably still respectfully disagree.

Please, feel free to show me this census.

2000 years from now, I wonder what evidence will exist that the US conducted censuses. I wonder how much electronic data will still be retrievable after all the wars that are fought. I wonder how much paper won't have been burned. The Romans chiseled an awful lot of things in stone, but I don't think their census data made it that far.

If the census didn't happen, that just means Jesus might not have been born in Bethlehem. Or he might have been born there; it just didn't have anything to do with a census. He was born in the fall, after all -- around Sukkot, during which time everyone road-tripped to Jerusalem anyway. Lots of people crashed in the suburb of Bethlehem.

Anyway, have a good night, everyone -- I'm tired of the internets and I'm going home.

[coldharvest]

I'm tired of the internets and I'm going home.

Have a good night Bro.

[Ultra Swain]

I thought it was Jesus H. Christ...and what the hell does that H stand for anyways?

Hallucination?

[svizzerams]

really, cold, my main concern is not converting you, it's averting an oncoming stroke.

Well if that's the case skip the mass and exercise instead. Nothing can prevent a stroke better than keeping your body in good shape.

Of course, pharmaceutical salesmen might have a different opinion.

As a purveyor of licit pharmaceuticals I say...get thee to a gym. Drugs are blunt intruments at best.

[Jäeger]

Denise:

well, from the brief period of time i've read your writings, my understanding is that you are a muslim who is vehemently opposed to the catholic church

Is there a new trend among the papists to play the victim card that I’m not aware of? Neither Coldharvest nor anyone else that I can remember has made a single illegitimate or unfounded criticism of the roman church.

Doubting the existence of Jesus is a legitimate question. I agree more with Caliban’s view that a guy named Jesus existed and said some interesting things that pissed off religious authorities. He might have even spoken against the concepts of usury and temporal power, that the Vatican has loved so much and pursued ardently. The rest of the magical bullshit was added to “Jesus’s” story to garner political power for what was until then a minor pacifistic cult.

Any part of your or anyone’s religion or lack thereof can be questioned in spite of what any pope tells us. If it holds up under scrutiny great. If not, maybe more time should be spent investigating it. The fact that most of catholicism (or judaism and islam) does not stand up well under scrutiny, does not mean that when someone points this out that they are “anti-catholic”

[denise]

jaeger, get off your high horse. i was stating my conclusion based upon repeated observation: a fact, you know those things you seem to be so fond of, and would like everyone to throw around a little more. i didn't question coldharvest's motives or his honesty nor did i play the victim. doubting the existence of Jesus is a legitimate question for you and for any number of people that doubt his existence, but whether you think he is a fictional character or not, any rational person can go to any number of places on this planet and see innumerable monuments to his existence and talk to any number of people, including you, who can tell them a little or a lot about him, whether it is accurate or not. people have been "investigating" him for 2,000 years and continue to do so, so i don't know what you are talking about there . this is america, you are free to believe in or not believe in whatever you want, so i think you dost protest too much, it is a non-issue. that said, is also a fact that there are plenty of people who are anti-catholic, but i'm not loosing any sleep over it.

[coldharvest]

i was stating my conclusion based upon repeated observation: a fact

Your observations are not very keen.

[denise]

how so?