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Postby flipflop » Sun Mar 16, 2008 7:24 pm

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Killer robots ... friend or foe?

by Alan Boyle

Thousands of robots are already on the battlefield in Iraq and Afghanistan, but what happens when you hand the robot a gun and turn it loose?

Some researchers fear that giving military robots autonomy as well as ammo is the first step toward a "Terminator"-style nightmare, while others suggest that in some scenarios, weapon-wielding robots could someday act more humanely than humans.

The pros and cons of killer robots are taking center stage Wednesday in London, at what's considered the world's oldest military think tank, the Royal United Services Institute.

On one side of the issue is Ronald Arkin, a robotics researcher at Georgia Tech who is working on a Pentagon-funded project to build a sense of ethics into battlefield robots - "an artificial conscience, if you will," he told me.

"The basic rule is to try to engineer a system that will comply as best it can, given the information that it has, with the laws of war," Arkin explained. "And it's my belief that eventually we can do better than humans in this regard."

On the other side is Noel Sharkey, a robotics expert at Britain's University of Sheffield who served as chief judge for the long-running TV show "Robot Wars."

Nowadays, Sharkey is sounding the alarm about the prospect of real-life robot wars: He's calling for an international ban on autonomous weapon systems until it can be shown that they can obey the laws of war.

"I think we should be addressing this immediately," Sharkey told me. "I think we've already stepped over the line."

Killer robots aren't on their own ... yet
That doesn't mean killer robots are on the loose. To date, the battlefield 'bots have been used as not-so-autonomous extensions of human warfighting capabilities. For example, the missile-armed Predator drones that have played such a prominent role in Iraq and Afghanistan are remote-controlled by teams of living, breathing pilots.

On the ground, robots have traditionally done reconnaissance or hunted for roadside bombs. Just recently, the Pentagon just went through a tangled procurement process to order up to 3,000 next-generation machines. (After a legal battle, the contract was won by iRobot, which also makes the Roomba vacuum cleaner and other robotic helpers.)

Last year, the Pentagon started sending gun-toting robots to Iraq, but even those robots aren't designed for autonomous operation. Instead, they're remote-controlled by human operators and are equipped with fail-safe systems that shut them down if they go haywire.

What worries Sharkey is that the military may be on a slippery slope leading to a robotic arms race. "My real concern is that the policies are going to make themselves, that the 'autonomization' of weapons will creep in piecemeal," he told me.

For example, Sharkey pointed out that the Pentagon is already on a path to make a third of its ground combat vehicles autonomous by 2015. "Then you'll put a weapon in one of them, and then it will gradually creep in bit by bit.," he said.

He also pointed to the Pentagon's roadmap for billions of dollars' worth of robotic research over the next 25 years. As the United States and its allies put more and more robots on the battlefield, their rivals will surely follow. "Once you build them, they're easy to copy," Sharkey said. "The trouble is that we can't really put the genie back in the bottle."

Even if the United States takes care to build robots with a "conscience," others may feel under no pressure to do likewise. A couple of years ago, Iranian-backed Hezbollah guerrillas sent a remote-controlled drone over Israel, and Sharkey said al-Qaida and other terrorists could follow suit with their own breeds of robo-bombers.

"If you don't really give a toss, you can just put an autonomous weapon running into a crowd anywhere," Sharkey said. "It's only a matter of time before that happens."

Killer robots with a conscience?
Arkin agrees with Sharkey that it's high time to start thinking about the implications of autonomous weapon systems.

"I think that's a reasonable debate, and there's good reason to have that debate at this time, just so we understand what we're creating," he said. "I would be content if it was decided that autonomous systems have to be banned from the battlefield completely."

But when it comes to designing the combat systems of the future, Arkin argued that there should be a place for autonomy, or at least an embedded sense of ethics. He pointed out that humans haven't always had a good track record on battlefield behavior.

"Human performance, unfortunately, is a relatively low bar," Arkin said.

One of Arkin's suggestions would apply even if a robot is under human control: The robot should be able to sense if something wasn't right about what it was being asked to do - and then require the human operator to override the robot's artificial conscience.

In other scenarios, the data flooding in about a potentially threatening encounter might be so overwhelming that mere mortals would not be able to process the input in time to make the right decision. "Ultimately, robots will have more sensors and better sensors than humans have to see the situation," Arkin said.

Arkin said he doesn't advocate the idea of creating robot armies to sweep over a battlefield. Rather, they would be used for targeted applications: For example, once an urban area is cleared of civilians, a robot could be set up to watch out for snipers and fire back autonomously, he said.

"The impact of the research I'm doing is, hopefully, going to save lives," he said.

But Arkin described his efforts as mere "baby steps" toward the creation of battlebots with a conscience. "There are no milestones or timetables for doing this right now," he said. "We're pioneering this work to see where it would lead."

New laws of robotics
This work goes way beyond science-fiction author Isaac Asimov's Three Laws of Robotics, which supposedly ruled out scenarios where robots could harm humans.

"Asimov contributed greatly in the sense that he put up a straw man to get the debate going on robotics," Arkin said. "But it's not a basis for morality. He created [the Three Laws] deliberately with gaps so you could have some interesting stories."

Even without the Three Laws, there's plenty in today's debate over battlefield robotics to keep novelists and philosophers busy: Is it immoral to wage robotic war on humans? How many civilian casualties are acceptable when a robot is doing the fighting? If a killer robot goes haywire, who (or what) goes before the war-crimes tribunal?

Sharkey said such questions should go before an international body that has the power to develop a treaty on autonomous weapons.

"In 1950, The New York Times was calling for a U.N. commission on robotic weapons," Sharkey said. "Here we are, 57 years later, and it's actually coming to pass - and we still haven't got it."
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Postby yorick » Wed Mar 19, 2008 9:26 am

"Asimov contributed greatly in the sense that he put up a straw man to get the debate going on robotics," Arkin said. "But it's not a basis for morality. He created [the Three Laws] deliberately with gaps so you could have some interesting stories."

Even without the Three Laws, there's plenty in today's debate over battlefield robotics to keep novelists and philosophers busy: Is it immoral to wage robotic war on humans? How many civilian casualties are acceptable when a robot is doing the fighting? If a killer robot goes haywire, who (or what) goes before the war-crimes tribunal?


Isaac Asimov eh? Strikes me robotic toys are last ditch hang-overs from late 19th Century industrial era where machines first began to replace humans. Of course such machines have no place in 21st Century warfare at all; this being new-age of mental/economic battlegrounds worldwide.

Otherwise have always preferred Arthur C. Clarke to Asimov for humanitarian sci-fi perspective. He died yesterday at age of 90:


COLOMBO, Sri Lanka (AP) — Arthur C. Clarke, a visionary science fiction writer who won worldwide acclaim with more than 100 books on space, science and the future, died Wednesday in his adopted home of Sri Lanka, an aide said. He was 90.

Clarke, who had battled debilitating post-polio syndrome since the 1960s and sometimes used a wheelchair, died at 1:30 a.m. after suffering breathing problems, aide Rohan De Silva said.

Co-author with Stanley Kubrick of Kubrick's film "2001: A Space Odyssey," Clarke was regarded as far more than a science fiction writer.

He was credited with the concept of communications satellites in 1945, decades before they became a reality. Geosynchronous orbits, which keep satellites in a fixed position relative to the ground, are called Clarke orbits.

He joined American broadcaster Walter Cronkite as commentator on the U.S. Apollo moonshots in the late 1960s.

Clarke's non-fiction volumes on space travel and his explorations of the Great Barrier Reef and Indian Ocean earned him respect in the world of science, and in 1976 he became an honorary fellow of the American Institute of Aeronautics and Astronautics.

But it was his writing that shot him to his greatest fame and that gave him the greatest fulfillment.



(:=
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Postby flipflop » Wed Mar 19, 2008 12:11 pm

I like my sci-fi bleak and uncompromising - Saberhagen and his Berserkers always float my boat, or should that be float my star cruiser?

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Postby Sri Lanky » Wed Mar 19, 2008 10:59 pm

I don't believe that robots replace us.....by the looks of things they enslave us.
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Postby nowonmai » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:37 am

I've got Lanky down as a Gor man.
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Postby flipflop » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:24 am

Cyborgs are the way forward, mix-n-match and part-exchange. I predict the first genuine cybernetic cross-over before 2050

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Postby Jäeger » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:19 am

Cyborgs are the way forward, mix-n-match and part-exchange. I predict the first genuine cybernetic cross-over before 2050


Bingo. Especially if we undertake more serious space missions. We will probably be functioning cyborgs even before we develop full-on Artificial Intelligence.
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Postby flipflop » Thu Mar 20, 2008 12:33 pm

I don't think manned space flight will ever be viable again for exploring beyond the moon - not only are we too frail but it would be too commercially unrewarding. Unless we radically master a new technology than can match near-light speed travel, we're stuck in the biosphere until we wipe ourselves out or the void returns to claim our pitiful asses. Even with light-speed it would take us 8 years to the nearest star and back - it's too big out there for tiny sacks of meat-shit like us.

The new explorers will be 100% automated, probably self-replicating and perhaps nano-sized; they might even think someday that us lumps of meat with our illogical thoughts and actions are superfluous to the survival of intelligence in the universe, and stamp us out. No big loss.

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Postby SRR » Thu Mar 20, 2008 2:06 pm

Damnit, the way is not along a straight line, but ducking around a corner.

Multidimensional theory dictates that consciousness has only barely been tapped. Indeed the meat-sack will be abandoned, but not in favour of electrified tin cans. The fabric of time is more malleable than tin foil, we just haven't found the right fire to melt it with yet.
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Postby Jäeger » Thu Mar 20, 2008 8:58 pm

Damnit, the way is not along a straight line, but ducking around a corner.

Multidimensional theory dictates that consciousness has only barely been tapped. Indeed the meat-sack will be abandoned, but not in favour of electrified tin cans. The fabric of time is more malleable than tin foil, we just haven't found the right fire to melt it with yet.


The distances involved in inter-stellar travel will be difficult to overcome. I don’t think it will prove to be impossible, but in the short term it will be more viable to colonise planets within our own solar system. This would also not require space craft to approach the speed of light for quite some time. It is a question of steps. I believe that we will modify our bodies to colonise our own solar system first, before eventually advancing to inter-stellar or inter-galactic space travel. We will eventually approach the speed of light in space craft, and that is when I believe that we will get a big-time breakthrough in the understanding of space-time. When that happens, a new world of possibilities will open up.

I don’t believe that manned space flight will necessarily be commercially unrewarding either. Mining of raw materials in space is a lot closer than many think it is. I’ll admit that I am biased because it is a personal goal of mine to work in space, but there are quite a few companies exploring the possibility of mining operations on the moon, asteroids, planetoids and planets right now. In fact I’ve heard “conservative” estimates that it will be a reality by 2020. That’s not far off.

The human body as it is adapted for Earth, is a hindrance for space travel / colonisation. The difference is that I believe that it will be easier for us to modify the biological machine than to create an artificial “consciousness”. If we take the body out of the equation, all of the worlds that are too harsh for our biological bodies in this solar system become fair game for colonisation. By eliminating all of our biological baggage with the exception of the portion of our brains that house our “consciousness” / intelligence, and creating a direct-neural interface, we will expand our life-spans out to millennia and we would be capable of surviving and thriving on any planet where our space probes are not destroyed today.

Our cyborg bodies that we replace our biological bodies with, will almost certainly involve a self-replicating nano-machinery and digital technology. However, I reckon that they will work more along the lines of self-replicating cells in our current biological body. Automated self-replication and repair will occur unconsciously to us in our cyborg bodies, much like how skin cells die and replicate without any conscious thought in our biological ones. Our cyborg bodies will be complex systems with many parts of it acting solely on their own imperatives of replication / survival, but I don’t see 100% automation occurring before direct-neural interface controlled cyborgs are developed.
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Postby SRR » Thu Mar 20, 2008 11:43 pm

Yeah, but if we can't bend space-time, the only way to make those looong interstellar voyages tolerable will be with copious amounts of anti-grav sex. So we can't do away with the body entirely.
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Postby Jäeger » Fri Mar 21, 2008 3:01 am

Yeah, but if we can't bend space-time, the only way to make those looong interstellar voyages tolerable will be with copious amounts of anti-grav sex. So we can't do away with the body entirely.


Hey don't be clueing everyone in on that or I'll never get to go to space!
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Postby friendlyskies » Wed Apr 09, 2008 12:48 am

Seems kind of pointless - we spend 50,000 years killing off all the other dangerous predators, then build new ones. That can kick our asses.
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Postby flipflop » Wed Apr 09, 2008 4:26 pm

freindlyskies wrote:Seems kind of pointless - we spend 50,000 years killing off all the other dangerous predators, then build new ones. That can kick our asses.


It will be the seminal moment - like in the Terminator movies - when the next great leap in the evolution of intelligent species is the leaving behind of the meat, the bone and all that crappy mucus and mortal sludge that goes with it - the ulitimate being (until pure energy supersedes it) will be sleek, metallic, inorganic.

They might even keep a few of us meatballs as pets, to slap about a bit and play fetch with

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Postby Fansy » Wed Apr 09, 2008 7:38 pm

I would be a treacherous ally for humans, let me get that out of the way now. If it came down to a war, I would sell out biological beings in a heartbeat. I'm that sick of how sloppy and imperfect most of you people are, including myself.
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