5.11 tactical convertible TDU bottoms (yes, 5.11 "zip offs")

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5.11 tactical convertible TDU bottoms (yes, 5.11 "zip offs")

Postby Woodsman » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:36 pm

Being a bit of a pragmatist, I am always on the look out for gear that offers multiple features that I find useful and in some cases can be used for different purposes. Having walked miles in blue jeans in years past, I got tired of my wallet making chafe marks on my buttocks and started to look to see if there was something else I could use to cure that problem. I tried a pair of 6-pocket BDU bottoms and found immediately that they were a solution, as moderate gear placed in the thigh pockets eliminated the problem I had with the blue jeans.

Fast forward to the present and it seems that there are limitless companies making "utility pants" all of which have been manufactured to equally limitless fabric patterns and quality specifications as well.

From primarily a consideration of leisure, there are times where pants that convert to shorts become quite practical - especially when water gets involved as it does here every year. "Zip offs" may not be the most fashionable garment, but from a perspective of traveling through multiple environments on the same trip (cold/hot/wet/dry) with space and weight being limited for one reason or another, these pants become indispensable. I have purchased zip offs in the past and all of them I own incorporate thigh pockets into the design - I wouldn't consider any that don't having learned the practicality of this design over the years. There still remained one problem with convertible pants however and that is they always seem to be built with lightweight fabric that may or may not hold up to rugged environments should you take them through a thicket or forest that includes some thorny, spikey vegetation of some sort.

I've taken average zip off pants through what I would consider is moderately rough environments and I have to admit they hold up surprisingly well considering how lightweight the fabric is, but as I'm doing it, I'm always thinking I might have to be a little extra cautious with my movements in the terrain because I don't want to rip these pants - also, they are no good for protection from the elements - the fabric might not rip, but as the material is quite thin, you wind up with extra scratches on your skin you wouldn't have had if you'd had taken a BDU or another pant with thicker fabric.

Looking for a zip-off that incorporates tougher fabric that is more abrasion resistant than the typical lightweight nylon material most are made of led me to the 5.11 convertible bottoms offered (at this time) exclusively by L.A. police gear company.

Here's the link:

http://www.lapolicegear.com/5tatazipofft.html

Looking through the LA police gear company's website, I realized that if I ordered two pairs of these pants I could get the knee pads and a hat au-gratis using a coupon code found on their website.

It has been a couple months since I placed the order. I believe it was about 10 days from the day I ordered to the time I received the package, which I felt was reasonable for standard delivery across 3/4 of the U.S.. The package arrived with the pants in the correct size (only khaki is being offered as a color right now) and a hat but no pads - a call back to the company allowed them to send the pads out within a few days. Had I known what the pads were going to be like, I wouldn't have bothered - but I wanted to try them out anyway to see if I would find any practical use for them - and it was part of the deal after all. 5.11 "tactical" Mouse pad anyone?

The package was packed very nicely from the company and the pants and hat had the mfgr's tags on them and I have to say I was impressed somewhat with the presentation of the shipment. Before I pulled the tags off, I inspected both pairs of pants to ensure all the fasteners worked and seams were sewn properly. I could not find a flaw down to the highest level of scrutiny - the stitching on both pants is extremely uniform and precise. All the thread ends were trimmed and my general thought is that this company has obviously taken some effort to ensure a high level of quality.

The TDU convertibles are made of a 65% polyester, 35% cotton ripstop fabric that I would describe as about the same thickness as 100% ripstop cotton bdu material (I have some warm weather BDUs here and the material is very similar in thickness), but the material feels different in the hand due to the synthetic weave. It seems a tad stiffer to me.

These pants have 7 pockets: 2 slash pockets on the side that have been built up (double fabric layer) on the bottom end where a clip knife is often placed on the pocket, 2 rear pockets in which the top of the pockets are angled diagonally (slashed) and secured with velcro (or some other hook and loop fastener), 2 thigh pockets with pocket flaps that secure with velcro and a small knife/extra pistol magazine/cell phone pocket on the left side of the pants between the slash and thigh pockets that is also secured with velcro.

These pants have a nylon "D" ring on the right hand side of the waist, a cotton band across the right rear pocket (perhaps originally designed to hang carabiners for climbing applications - 5.11 named for a particularly challenging rock climbing route obviously), a metal zipper in the crotch of the pants, a metal snap to close the waist above the crotch and also on the inside of the crotch there is a short liner that attaches with a button used as a secondary fastener perhaps to keep certain anatomic parts from getting caught in the zipper? "Self repairing - or coil loop" plastic zippers are found at the location where the pants zip off above the knees and on the inside of the cuffs to allow for ease of getting them over footwear. The belt loops are "overbuilt" on these pants - wide and double stitched. There are pockets for knee armor in the lower removable leg portions of these pants - the armor is secured by a double fabric seam, no fasteners are used. The armor pocket entry hole is smaller than the armor/armor pocket, when the armor is inserted folded and then expands, it hits the seam in the locations above and below the side pocket which keeps the armor in place.

I've had almost 2 months to use these pants both in work and leisure environments in most facets of my daily life. The first thing I 'm going to tell you is that I like them and I would recommend them for anyone else who wants a set of practical traveling pants. They are lightweight, sharp looking, fit well (at least in my opinion), comfortable enough for any environment (obviously liners will have to be worn for cold weather) or activity that I can think of, are definitely tough enough for most things and in my opinion, they are a good value for the money. I have not found any "zip-offs" with even remotely as heavy, quality fabric compared to these.

Like all products however, they are not perfect and here's where some improvements could be made:

1. The knee armor as supplied is a joke. It's simply a swatch of cut out 4-5mm thick neoprene faced on one side. Kneeling down on this stuff, I can feel a concrete floor right through it. Remembering a drill I went through once jumping for cover from fire, I nearly took my knee out on a rock and I don't think these pads would have added any comfort from that blow. They are not even a light substitution for knee pads. The armor pocket will not cover the knee when fully articulated, either. The pocket needs to be elongated toward the shin for full knee coverage. When the neoprene is placed into the armor pockets, it is obvious to anyone who looks at you it is there - and it will make your knees sweat. Multiple layers of kevlar velcroed in would be a huge improvement - but again, the pockets need to continue further down toward the shin to protect the knee adequately. At least the knees have an extra layer of fabric (as they should) and if you need some protection in a jam, stuffing rags into the pockets would definitely help protect your knees until the fabric blows out - and the good thing is that would take a bit of force based on how the pants are constructed.

2. The little pocket on the left hand side is good for about 1 thing: an extra pistol mag. Maybe some of your cell phones might fit in there, but mine, a Motorola razor will barely fit (too wide for the pocket) and is hard to retrieve when I am able to get it in there. Since just about nobody needs a pocket exclusively for an extra pistol mag and this particular pocket is what quickly and easily distinguishes 5.11 "tactical" pants from any other, it should be eliminated. Pants that scream "tactical" due to a ridiculous marketing slogan could possibly bring the wrong sort of attention.

3. The material dries very slowly when compared to nylon. One of my personal favorite uses of convertible pants is the ability to use them for swimming shorts. In the past, I would take off the legs, throw them in the back pockets and go swimming and leave them off for the rest of the day, then when dark thirty comes, put the legs back on to shield them from elements (mostly flying biting pests). With typical zip offs, they are made of lightweight nylon and dry off very quickly - maybe 30 minutes? The non-5.11 zip offs I have come with full size pockets in the rear so the legs can be folded and stowed with a decent level of security. With the 5.11 model, you're looking at easily 2 hours to dry - possibly 3 or more while wearing them under ideal conditions after submerging them - if you're seriously moving along after a dip, that means its possible to experience some crotch chafing, which is not a good thing. Also, with the lack of a full pocket in the back, the legs will barely fit folded beneath the velcro in the back pockets. Both times I've swam in these pants, I've taken the pant legs and thrown them into a seal pack instead of stowing them into the rear pockets - I just don't want to lose the lower legs on the pants in the water somewhere. For just using them as shorts casually, the pockets secure the legs fine. No amount of running is going to allow for losing the pants on ground - water is very different. I would like to see some full pockets in the rear of the pants instead of having them slashed diagonally. Zippers would work very well for this application.

4. The cotton strap above the right rear pocket can get caught on objects in various environments (such as your kitchen if you have knobs on drawers such as I do). It doesn't make sense to go climbing without a riggers/tech belt or harness (which I believe will fit into the belt loops - although I haven't seen the need to try one recently), and frankly I doubt you'll find a need for the strap for much of anything - therefore they should eliminate it on these pants. It's a liability, not an asset. I'll be cutting mine off after this review.

5. Velcro (or hook and loop) fasteners are loud and inferior to traditional bdu trouser thigh pocket button fasteners - get rid of the velcro on those pockets and instead use double hidden buttons for fasteners which are spaced appropriately (mil. spec for this works very well). Also, the thigh pockets are too small. The placement of the pockets is good, but the pockets should wrap around further to the back and with pleats identical to mil. spec trousers.

6. The fabric is a tad loud when running. I am not a fan of loud clothing for any reason. I am not sure what they could do to remedy this other than use a different weaved fabric. I have experienced 65/35 fabric before that is quieter than this on certain BDUs - but, I have not tested how those fabrics dry, so not sure if there is a difference there.

7. Khaki is the only color so far - and a crap one unless you're never taking these into habitats that include vegetation. It's a nice looking color from a fashion standpoint, but mine are already showing stains that wouldn't show on my typical standby field pant color: dark olive, or in 5.11 color category what is known as "tundra". Khaki makes sense if you have to go with one color and are selling this to the multitude of people most of who live in urban environments. If they sell enough of these pants, they will likely start producing them in various colors.

I really hope 5.11sells the shit out of these pants, and although I would like to see some changes/improvements, they're still some of the most useful pants I've seen so far.

Photos:
Worn as pants:
Image
As shorts:
Image
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Re: 5.11 tactical convertible TDU bottoms (yes, 5.11 "zip offs")

Postby Woodsman » Mon Jun 30, 2008 7:37 pm

Details: crotch area:
Image
Comparison between a 5.11 pant thigh pocket and a military battle dress uniform (WWII era) thigh pocket - notice the size AND design (seams/expansion pleats) of the pocket.
Image
Carabiner loop (cut this off or get it caught on something eventually):
Image

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Re: 5.11 tactical convertible TDU bottoms (yes, 5.11 "zip offs")

Postby coldharvest » Mon Jun 30, 2008 8:17 pm

Superb recommendation Woodsman.
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Re: 5.11 tactical convertible TDU bottoms (yes, 5.11 "zip offs")

Postby Stiv » Mon Jun 30, 2008 10:13 pm

That website has some pretty good deals from time to time.

I think 5.11 owes you some residuals...now about those tactical socks I was looking at.......

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Re: 5.11 tactical convertible TDU bottoms (yes, 5.11 "zip offs")

Postby Dark11Crusader » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:18 am

I've got a pair of their Tac lite pants, and though like you note, the cargo pockets could be bigger, the pants are pretty legit. They take a beating, so ive got no complaints
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Re: 5.11 tactical convertible TDU bottoms (yes, 5.11 "zip offs")

Postby svizzerams » Thu Jul 03, 2008 3:16 pm

Wow - great review. Are those the ones you were wearing when you arrived in PA on your motorbike?
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Re: 5.11 tactical convertible TDU bottoms (yes, 5.11 "zip offs")

Postby RYP » Thu Jul 03, 2008 4:20 pm

I still don't understand why people don't call 5.11's after their correct name: "Royal Robbins 5:11's" its sounds much more UK faggy :))

What I would like added to my tactical 5.11 Machowear:

- A rear end flap for Baghdad Butt Barfs
- pre stained pants or pattern that hides spills and blood stains
- pre built in package bulge for standing around waiting for the client. Gives the Iraqis something to concentrate on rather than blowing you up
- gold lame pool side sausage fest swim wear
- snuff can holder with pre worn ring
- 5.11 tactical jammies so you can get a good nights sleep
-washing instructions in arabic


most importantly...cut the damn pants as if you had a pair. I swear they measure the "Draw" using a woman.
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Re: 5.11 tactical convertible TDU bottoms (yes, 5.11 "zip offs")

Postby Chimborazo » Tue Jul 15, 2008 8:41 pm

Stiv wrote:That website has some pretty good deals from time to time.

I think 5.11 owes you some residuals...now about those tactical socks I was looking at.......

Best,
Stiv


The shorts look absurd without black knee high tube socks.
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Re: 5.11 tactical convertible TDU bottoms (yes, 5.11 "zip offs")

Postby ExPatJack » Sun Jul 20, 2008 7:30 pm

Check out T.A.D. Gear's FORCE 10 CARGO UTILITIES IN KHAKI AC HP NYLON. A bit pricey, but I have several pieces of gear from these guys, all of it rugged and able to take a beating.
My wallet isnt that big, so I prefer to buy gear that will last. I also own several pairs 5.11 pants. They're OK, but if I'm doing anything serious, I go to the T.A.D. stuff first.
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Re: 5.11 tactical convertible TDU bottoms (yes, 5.11 "zip of

Postby JamesInTheWorld » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:01 am

LA Police Gear is a great Company run by a great dude – a true American success story

http://www.lapolicegear.com/

Sign up for their newsletter for the really good deals like buy 3 and get one free and closeouts



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Re: 5.11 tactical convertible TDU bottoms (yes, 5.11 "zip of

Postby mapandcompass » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:17 am

A very, very good review, Woodsman... excellent attention to detail. You answered questions I didn't even know I had. The kneepads are a pity. They could be reworked into an essential feature. Thanks for the info about the dry time, I've been wondering how cotton/poly blends work in that regard. I guess the dry time makes sense, using some "redneck 'rithmetic."

Jeans: 100% Cotton = 7+ hours dry time
Your 5.11s: 35%Cotton/65%Poly = ~3 hours
Liteweight: 100% Nylon = .33 hours

As solid as those pants sound, I'll be sticking with 100% synthetics to replace my old pair. While it's wet, that cotton fiber saps considerably more caloric heat, for a longer time, per unit of water evaporated than any 100% poly blend. This means more time finding or preparing food and fuel to replace that energy; increased risk of hypothermia; and a visit from the evil chafing demon.

For the record, I had a pair of lightweight nylon pants (recently deceased) that held up under some surprising conditions. I didn't even bother with the convertibles. Just swam with the pants on, got out, and walked around a tad and they'd be dry in 20 minutes. No problem. Despite their light construction they held up against chlorinated hot tubs, UV, salt water, butt-on-rock sledding, and brambles. They were also 'hunting quiet' when you slowed down – a feature I always look for. They finally gave up the ghost after 6 countries, 9 states, and approximately (1.4) assloads of walked miles. The fabric in the crotch gave way to splitting and friction, eventually irreparably.
They were made by North Face and strangely enough featured not one, but two of those pockets that were best suited for a magazine. These frustrated me to no end, seeing how I had no magazines to put in them. Not wide enough for a Powerbar or cell phone, but too deep for a lighter. I sometimes carried cordage or a bandanna in them, but now I'm thinking perhaps these otherwise undersized pockets are an industry-wide plight?
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Re: 5.11 tactical convertible TDU bottoms (yes, 5.11 "zip of

Postby JamesInTheWorld » Thu Sep 30, 2010 8:29 am

I would also suggest the LA Police Gear Operator Pants – in my opinion they are 100X better than 511, and they only cost 19 bucks

These are the only Tactical Pants I wear in Iraq now – they are so good I gave away all of my 5.11’s

http://www.lapolicegear.com/basic-opera ... astic.html

Order one size up cuz they run a size small

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Re: 5.11 tactical convertible TDU bottoms (yes, 5.11 "zip of

Postby Woodsman » Thu Sep 30, 2010 2:36 pm

mapandcompass wrote:
For the record, I had a pair of lightweight nylon pants (recently deceased) that held up under some surprising conditions. I didn't even bother with the convertibles. Just swam with the pants on, got out, and walked around a tad and they'd be dry in 20 minutes. No problem. Despite their light construction they held up against chlorinated hot tubs, UV, salt water, butt-on-rock sledding, and brambles. They were also 'hunting quiet' when you slowed down – a feature I always look for. They finally gave up the ghost after 6 countries, 9 states, and approximately (1.4) assloads of walked miles. The fabric in the crotch gave way to splitting and friction, eventually irreparably.
They were made by North Face and strangely enough featured not one, but two of those pockets that were best suited for a magazine. These frustrated me to no end, seeing how I had no magazines to put in them. Not wide enough for a Powerbar or cell phone, but too deep for a lighter. I sometimes carried cordage or a bandanna in them, but now I'm thinking perhaps these otherwise undersized pockets are an industry-wide plight?


Thanks for the kind words regarding the review. I really liked these zip-offs that were manufactured by 5.11 and marketed by LAPG, but they are no longer available. I only wish I would have known they were going to close these out, I probably would have bought another couple of pair.

As for the 100% nylons - you are right - they are surprisingly tough. TNF manufactures some of the better pairs out there; it's a tad heavier nylon than the ultra cheapies I usually pick up which have the logo "field and stream" on them (usually around $20 and sold at Dunham's sporting goods here in the states). A couple of years ago I had a project on an island out on Lake Michigan - Two landowners and myself walked the boundaries and some of the interior of a 160 acre cedar swamp. Lots of blow down out there. This kind of terrain is very slow going with snags, brambles and boggy soils everywhere - I remember specifically stepping on a root mass and sinking all they way down about mid-thigh. I only brought one pair of these cheap nylon zip-offs and a pair of danners - the pants held up great without getting any rips in them. I am pretty amazed how much they hold up to considering how light the fabric is.

There are two downsides to the 100% nylon fabric though - one, even the smallest spark will melt a hole right through them and two, if you get in some brambles, your hide is gonna get poked.

I still have to say that I am disappointed with pant manufacturers out there. All of them have some features that are cool, and some features that suck.

The ideal pair of pants would have more usable pockets, D rings on the INSIDE of the larger, deeper pockets, at least one hidden pocket and they should not scream "I am here from the government". In fact, you could get away with using them in a more dressy-casual setting. They would be reasonably fire retardant, light weight enough to run, swim and crawl in, the fabric would be quiet and not loud as hell while you move and they have to be tough enough to shed briars. They would also not stain easily and come in natural colors (not GI joe camo or turbocam). Not asking for much, am I? Ha ha.

I'm still looking for a pair of pants like this. I have a couple of favorites, but so far nothing that I go - wow - great
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Re: 5.11 tactical convertible TDU bottoms (yes, 5.11 "zip of

Postby mapandcompass » Thu Sep 30, 2010 3:57 pm

Woodsman wrote:There are two downsides to the 100% nylon fabric though - one, even the smallest spark will melt a hole right through them and two, if you get in some brambles, your hide is gonna get poked.


So true about the sparks. Also, wearing synthetics any time you may be surrounded by a lot of heat, could leave you picking off fused bits of skin and molten fibers = bad.
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Re: 5.11 tactical convertible TDU bottoms (yes, 5.11 "zip of

Postby JamesInTheWorld » Thu Sep 30, 2010 4:25 pm

Woodsman wrote:The ideal pair of pants would have more usable pockets, D rings on the INSIDE of the larger, deeper pockets,



LA Police Gear Operator Pants have d rings inside of the cargo pockets:

http://www.lapolicegear.com/basic-opera ... astic.html

Order one size up cuz they run a size small

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