While Europe Slept

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While Europe Slept

Postby marie-angelique » Sat Jul 26, 2008 1:23 am

i bought this book at my sister's favorite lefty bookstore in durham. a quick read. really explains the penta types.

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from an amazon.com review:
5.0 out of 5 stars Exceptionally Illuminating, February 25, 2006
By Kat Bakhu (Albuquerque, NM United States) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME)
This review is from: While Europe Slept: How Radical Islam is Destroying the West from Within (Hardcover)
I bought this book hoping to get a better understanding of what was going on in Europe with their Muslim immigrant population (things like the car-burning riots in Paris, areas of Netherlands ruled by Sharia and not Dutch law, etc., left me quizzical). Well, I got that understanding. And I got a lot more, not the least are vital insights as to just how very different Europe is from the US. The author is both a clear writer, and an excellent journalist who digs down into the entrails to bring forth the real guts of a story. The information he brilliantly provided often left me with my jaw hanging, wondering, "That's really what they think over there?" I learned an awful lot in the short time it took to read this book.

I honestly think that every American should read it. It is a clarion call to not repeat the myopic, multicultural mistakes that have gotten European countries into a fix that I honestly don't see how they can get out of now. You will acquire a clear portrait of the attitudes of Muslims in Europe, as well as those of elitist Europeans in all of their moral smugness and self-assuming superiority. Many themes are presented, but perhaps the over-arching theme is that tolerance for the intolerable (wife beating, genital mutilation, honor killing, rape, etc.) is never ever a good policy for a freedom loving, individual-respecting society.

While Europe Slept makes a highly readable contribution to the discussion on the impact of Mideastern Islam with the democractic West. It also has a lot to say about the role that the United States has played in this drama. It turns out that we are not nearly as bad as those who claim to hate us say we are. Reading this book had the unsuspected effect of leaving me feeling even more blessed and happy that I am one of those lucky ones to be an American. What else can I say except that this is a really, really good book. It brought a lot of light into an area that previously was something of a mystery. Highly recommended.
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Postby el3so » Sat Jul 26, 2008 11:45 am

We weren't sleeping, just resting our eyes for a bit.
This town's leadership doesn't understand that we can compromise with these savage, merciless bisexual rapist-killers.
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Re: While Europe Slept

Postby Maladict » Sun Jul 27, 2008 1:02 pm

areas of Netherlands ruled by Sharia and not Dutch law, etc.,


wtf? No such thing.
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Re: While Europe Slept

Postby marie-angelique » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:22 am

Maladict wrote:
areas of Netherlands ruled by Sharia and not Dutch law, etc.,


wtf? No such thing.

sorry, just one review from amazon, not my words....

the book did imply there are folks in the Netherlands who would like there to be sharia law there someday, and that is was only a matter of time before they outnumber those who don't.
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Re: While Europe Slept

Postby snaark » Mon Jul 28, 2008 1:42 pm

marie-angelique wrote:the book did imply there are folks in the Netherlands who would like there to be sharia law there someday, and that is was only a matter of time before they outnumber those who don't.


I'm guessing that there might be a few brave assumptions underpinning that implication.
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Re: While Europe Slept

Postby Maladict » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:10 pm

marie-angelique wrote:the book did imply there are folks in the Netherlands who would like there to be sharia law there someday, and that is was only a matter of time before they outnumber those who don't.


What it's probably referring to is a Dutch minister who said that Sharia law could well be adopted in the Netherlands, provided that the majority of the people support it. This is theoretically correct of course, democracy and all that, but predictably enough the media ripped it out of context to make a nice headline.
There's no chance of it actually happening, not now and not in the forseeable future.
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Re: While Europe Slept

Postby roadkill » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:27 pm

also, the riots in france had nothing to do with radical islamism. au contraire, everybody would have been happy if the were some kind of control, by whomever, over the banlieue kids.

t'en fais pas , m-a.
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Re: While Europe Slept

Postby marie-angelique » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:09 pm

roadkill wrote:also, the riots in france had nothing to do with radical islamism. au contraire, everybody would have been happy if the were some kind of control, by whomever, over the banlieue kids.

t'en fais pas , m-a.

merci cher, i'll try not to...:)

that was one of the arguments he made. that no one in europe thinks the riots were due to radical islam, but to poverty and other social ills.

he argued that in the states, immigrants assimilate very quickly in contrast to europe, where they tend to live together, keeping their language and mores from their home country.
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Re: While Europe Slept

Postby Penta » Mon Jul 28, 2008 7:49 pm

marie-angelique wrote:sorry, just one review from amazon, not my words....


And here's another:

There is definitely a big problem with fundamentalist Islam in Europe, but if anybody thinks that they will glean anything of use from this book then they'll be quickly disimbued of that view.

Bawer tends to write in generalities, a point of view he accuses europeans of having, but claims that americans are taught to think for themselves. Thus in Bawer's world there are only fundamentalist Muslims - no moderates - and no differences between any european nationalities.

Bawer makes many sweeping statements, claiming for example that all europeans are brainwashed by their authoritarian governments, that europeans are frightfully ignorant of what is happening outside Europe and so on. Americans are classed as independent-thinkers, cognescent of foreign events to a high degree - despite all the research pointing to a completely different conclusion - welcoming etc. Muslims, needless to say, just wish to kill all non-Muslims according to Bawer.

Bawer makes some extraordinary statements in his book: Reagan and Schwarzenegger are original thinkers; everybody in Europe admires George W. Bush; Silvio Berlusconi has been excoriated by the press because he's a businessman, not because he's a crook and has legislated to avoid prosecutions.

In another place, Bawer claimes that 70% of inmates in french jails are muslims, but doesn't give any sources, leaving one to take this as just his personal opinion.

By the end one feels that if Bawer hates Europe and europeans so much why didn't he leave after the first day and go back to that paradise which is America.

Impartial writing is needed when writing on the problems with religion; perhaps Bawer knows somebody who could write such a book.
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Re: While Europe Slept

Postby marie-angelique » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:11 pm

This post was made by Penta who is currently on your ignore list. Display this post.
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Re: While Europe Slept

Postby Penta » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:27 pm

Your ignore button is intriguingly selective. You managed to read my post re Wayne on the Rants forum - and respond to it in 4 minutes flat.
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Re: While Europe Slept

Postby flipflop » Tue Jul 29, 2008 6:17 am

Ah look, she's going for the girls now as she can't take on the boys anymore

You're pulling m-a for posting an opinion piece? Like you've never done that? Also, if she chooses to ignore then not ignore your ranting ass, should you give a fuck? You're damaged goods here now, as popular as a lit match in a fuel dump.

I'm here, come and have a go at me, if you think you're hard enough Trotsky - why not put up pictures of me and my wife from my blog like you said you would? Booby the Provo always has your slimy back on the main forum, I've got m-a's , if she wants

Now fuck off

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Re: While Europe Slept

Postby snaark » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:02 pm

marie-angelique wrote:that was one of the arguments he made. that no one in europe thinks the riots were due to radical islam, but to poverty and other social ills.


Thats because they were due to poverty and other social ills.
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Re: While Europe Slept

Postby marie-angelique » Tue Jul 29, 2008 2:37 pm

thanks flipflop, i am just curious what people think of the premise of this book. i already know what penta thinks and if i engage with her it will turn into a useless 20 page c+p flame war. so i am just going to ignore her here and hope that some other voices chime in.



seems like a chicken and egg argument.

are the poverty and isolation due to the social isolation and lack of integration?

there was a report on the radio today about islamic schools in england. you could say that going to a segregated school causes these social ills, which in turn leads to radicalization.

here's an article in a similar vein:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/education/article413752.ece
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Re: While Europe Slept

Postby flipflop » Tue Jul 29, 2008 3:16 pm

Yeah, nothing like giving your opinion on a book you haven't even read.

As for integration - the vast majority of muslims integrate well into UK culture, I dunno about Europe as a whole. Muslims from South Asia have been well known to be industrious, enterprising and law-abiding. They are well represented in the professional classes too - doctors, lawyers etc.

This radicalism amongst younger, second and third generation British muslims is a lot less easier to understand. The "poverty" angle doesn't rub, see above. If that was the cause for radicalism leading to violence then there would be hundreds of West Indian and African British suicide bombers roaming the streets looking for targets. Foreign Policy? they've been fomenting radical/wahhabi discourse long before our latest Middle Eastern adventure. Maybe it's an identity crisis coupled with typically youthful exhuberance, a state of mind that's wide open to be exploited by nefarious third parties. But the role played by various radical muslim Imams -both foreign and homegrown- is as good a smoking gun as any for why some young muslim men go on to self-immolate themselves in the name of Islam. The finger is pointing straight at various Saudi religious establishments and preachers.

A few muslim faith schools have embarrasingly been stung by the C4 investigative journalism programme "Undercover Mosque", some teachers at these schools were secretly caught saying some very unecumenical statements - and the schools involved soon distanced themselves and/or sacked the culprits. This programme is still available on YouTube. Before the Jihadi Socialist pipes up - the Police brought a charge of incitement and libel (or similar) upon C4 for attacking these mosques and their speakers, OFCOM overruled the pc-hamstrung cops. It's a very controversial episode.

Watch these videos on YouTube, then the counter-arguments by the individuals portrayed, and make your own mind up.

I personally disagree with faith schools, and this Labour government seems to love them. But they won't be around after the next election.

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