Minneapolis burning

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Re: Minneapolis burning

Postby Tarkan » Tue Jun 30, 2020 12:53 pm

snaark wrote:MJK I don't even bother reading most of your paranoid ramblings. But a couple of points:

1. Floyd wasn't white, he was black. They're always black.
2. I'm glad you liked you black boss. I guess that makes you're not racist. Also, go look up what "moral licensing" means.
3. Anything you saw or think you saw is rendered somewhat irrelevant by the whole knee-in-back-of-the-neck-till-he-stops-screaming thing. You did see that, right?


Always black?

Guess you never heard of Daniel Shafer?

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/da ... er-n827641

Or how about Dennis Tuttle and Rhogena Nicholas? Killed in a botched narcotics raid that had, among other things, 5 cops shot by each other (not by the "suspects"), Rhogena killed while unarmed because she was "lunging for Tuttle's pistol", and SWAT putting an anchor shot in Dennis Tuttle 1 hour later as he was bleeding out. Oh yeah, the narcotics? There wasn't much, 15 grams of marijuana, 1.5 grams of cocaine. The informant that claimed drugs were being sold in the house? Well, turns out he didn't exist.

The police brutality, lethal force problem isn't a problem experienced only by blacks or Latinos. It affects pretty much everyone. It's just the the black cases get instant notoriety because there is a PR machine waiting in the wings to decry any officer involved shooting when a black person is involved.
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Re: Minneapolis burning

Postby Kurt » Tue Jun 30, 2020 1:24 pm

Very true.

Poor whites get hit hard.

Part of the reason is that in the US we have a tendency to think "Well someone has to keep the prison's filled" so it went from crack in the 80s where one gram of coke in line form could get a person 6 months in jail 1 gram of coke in the form of 20 grams of crack would get someone 30 + years or more.

Then opioids started getting prescribed for the pain caused by the labor of the poor, white person and they became hooked and started getting sent to prison or dying based on what a doctor prescribed them.

That is one reason why people are so shit-scared of Black Lives Matter. They know, in America, someone has to suffer and if not Black people get a leg up, stop getting shot as often by cops then those cops are gonna continue to shoot and jail people, and it will be them.
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Re: Minneapolis burning

Postby Tarkan » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:15 pm

Kurt wrote:Very true.

Poor whites get hit hard.

Part of the reason is that in the US we have a tendency to think "Well someone has to keep the prison's filled" so it went from crack in the 80s where one gram of coke in line form could get a person 6 months in jail 1 gram of coke in the form of 20 grams of crack would get someone 30 + years or more.

Then opioids started getting prescribed for the pain caused by the labor of the poor, white person and they became hooked and started getting sent to prison or dying based on what a doctor prescribed them.

That is one reason why people are so shit-scared of Black Lives Matter. They know, in America, someone has to suffer and if not Black people get a leg up, stop getting shot as often by cops then those cops are gonna continue to shoot and jail people, and it will be them.


Ok, Howard Zinn.

BLM is a Marxist front organization posing as a civil rights organization.

There's general popular acceptance over the concept of "black lives matter" & police brutality and over policing.

There's a general aversion to militant marxism. The reaction you are seeing isn't racism, it's anti-communism.
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Re: Minneapolis burning

Postby Kurt » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:27 pm

Tarkan wrote:
Kurt wrote:Very true.

Poor whites get hit hard.

Part of the reason is that in the US we have a tendency to think "Well someone has to keep the prison's filled" so it went from crack in the 80s where one gram of coke in line form could get a person 6 months in jail 1 gram of coke in the form of 20 grams of crack would get someone 30 + years or more.

Then opioids started getting prescribed for the pain caused by the labor of the poor, white person and they became hooked and started getting sent to prison or dying based on what a doctor prescribed them.

That is one reason why people are so shit-scared of Black Lives Matter. They know, in America, someone has to suffer and if not Black people get a leg up, stop getting shot as often by cops then those cops are gonna continue to shoot and jail people, and it will be them.


Ok, Howard Zinn.

BLM is a Marxist front organization posing as a civil rights organization.

There's general popular acceptance over the concept of "black lives matter" & police brutality and over policing.

There's a general aversion to militant marxism. The reaction you are seeing isn't racism, it's anti-communism.


Naw, I am seeing racism disguised as anti-Communism.

I am anti-Communist. Don't like Howard Zinn either...he sort of made shit up and presented it as a history book. But he had good company.

Most people, including myself, can name more Confederate Civil War Generals and their qualities than can name Union Generals (that are not Grant) and their qualities.

In fact, Union Generals tend to be though of as flawed. Grant drank, Sherman was pure evil for burning Atlanta (that is not what they really hated him for though) and McClealan was an oaf. Lincoln had a Law firm that specialized in Slave owner's rights in Illinois (which was true of course, Lincoln was a dick)

Meanwhile Lee was opposed to Slavery and fought more for Virginia etc. etc. Even though Lee sued to ignore his father-in-law's Will that released his estates slaves.

But like Zinn, we now believe in made-up shit. Like that the Confederacy was full of Constitutional Patriots and not traitors who willingly killed to keep "States Rights" (to own slaves) and eventually made-up shit collapses under it's weight of being made-up-shit.

That's what is happening now.

And if enough racists claim it is really communism they are fighting eventually the people fighting racism may start to believe they are communists, and then eventuall the made-up-shit of Howard Zinn will cause whatever society in the US comes after this one to collapse.
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Re: Minneapolis burning

Postby Tarkan » Tue Jun 30, 2020 2:40 pm

Kurt wrote:
Tarkan wrote:
Kurt wrote:Very true.

Poor whites get hit hard.

Part of the reason is that in the US we have a tendency to think "Well someone has to keep the prison's filled" so it went from crack in the 80s where one gram of coke in line form could get a person 6 months in jail 1 gram of coke in the form of 20 grams of crack would get someone 30 + years or more.

Then opioids started getting prescribed for the pain caused by the labor of the poor, white person and they became hooked and started getting sent to prison or dying based on what a doctor prescribed them.

That is one reason why people are so shit-scared of Black Lives Matter. They know, in America, someone has to suffer and if not Black people get a leg up, stop getting shot as often by cops then those cops are gonna continue to shoot and jail people, and it will be them.


Ok, Howard Zinn.

BLM is a Marxist front organization posing as a civil rights organization.

There's general popular acceptance over the concept of "black lives matter" & police brutality and over policing.

There's a general aversion to militant marxism. The reaction you are seeing isn't racism, it's anti-communism.


Naw, I am seeing racism disguised as anti-Communism.

I am anti-Communist. Don't like Howard Zinn either...he sort of made shit up and presented it as a history book. But he had good company.

Most people, including myself, can name more Confederate Civil War Generals and their qualities than can name Union Generals (that are not Grant) and their qualities.

In fact, Union Generals tend to be though of as flawed. Grant drank, Sherman was pure evil for burning Atlanta (that is not what they really hated him for though) and McClealan was an oaf. Lincoln had a Law firm that specialized in Slave owner's rights in Illinois (which was true of course, Lincoln was a dick)

Meanwhile Lee was opposed to Slavery and fought more for Virginia etc. etc. Even though Lee sued to ignore his father-in-law's Will that released his estates slaves.

But like Zinn, we now believe in made-up shit. Like that the Confederacy was full of Constitutional Patriots and not traitors who willingly killed to keep "States Rights" (to own slaves) and eventually made-up shit collapses under it's weight of being made-up-shit.

That's what is happening now.

And if enough racists claim it is really communism they are fighting eventually the people fighting racism may start to believe they are communists, and then eventuall the made-up-shit of Howard Zinn will cause whatever society in the US comes after this one to collapse.


Sherman is my favorite general. We collectively tend to view humanity as perfectible, and anyone born in the past as horribly flawed, unlike ourselves.

Your statement regarding "anti-racists throwing in with the communists" just validates horseshoe theory. There's a mirror image on the right - "start calling everyone racist for everything like criticizing Obama's policies, and don't be surprised when people just say fuck it"
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Re: Minneapolis burning

Postby Alphabet » Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:44 am

seektravelinfo wrote:Cops standing down? Ha. They just arrested CNN.



I escorted a Vice News crew all through the Baltimore riots with ZERO problems with the police. You know why? Because they didn't have and agenda, and they trusted me to deal with law enforcement.

Vice News manager: Hey Alphabet, we want to film the skirmish line at the CVS.

Alphabet: Ok. Let me go speak with the white shirt.

Alphabet: Excuse me sir, I'm with Vice News security, where can we stand to be out of your way, and also get the film they need?

White shirt: No problem. Media section is over there. Everyone has orders when we start moving to avoid your plot.

Alphabet: Thank you.




Show the whole fucking video from the CNN bullshit.
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Re: Minneapolis burning

Postby ROB » Sat Jul 18, 2020 8:51 am

Alphabet wrote:Vice News manager: Hey Alphabet, we want to film the skirmish line at the CVS.

Alphabet: Ok. Let me go speak with the white shirt.

Alphabet: Excuse me sir, I'm with Vice News security, where can we stand to be out of your way, and also get the film they need?

White shirt: No problem. Media section is over there. Everyone has orders when we start moving to avoid your plot.

Alphabet: Thank you.


I realise there is a practical approach to certain situations where that might be perfectly viable for individual media units, but it’s not really an approach I’d be happy advocating for the entire media of a democratic country where the gov, courts and media should all be adversarial to keep each other in line.
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Re: Minneapolis burning

Postby Kurt » Sat Jul 18, 2020 2:08 pm

The media does need permission from cops to not be arrested while working.

That is the reality now. It should not be, but it is.

Religion has an agenda too when they show up some place. But they do not need, nor should they need to have a handler clear it with cops before distributing flyers or yelling about Jesus on a street corner.
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Re: Minneapolis burning

Postby Alphabet » Sat Jul 18, 2020 4:57 pm

No one "cleared" anything with the cops in my situation. I didn't "ask permission" for them to film or do interviews. I practiced diplomacy and employed logic/reason, to avoid a potentially bad outcome for all sides involved. No media was told not to film. Matter of fact, when they announced it was curfew time over the horn, the media was specifically told it did not apply to them, and they could continue filming.

I mean, other than passing out blowjobs to news crews, what do you want?

Let's see the entire video of the CNN incident.
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Re: Minneapolis burning

Postby mb » Sat Jul 18, 2020 6:41 pm

The CNN reporters claimed (and I haven't watched all of it, but see no reason to disbelieve) that their location was determined *by previous discussion with police*. As in, they did exactly what you think they should have done. Then different ones came and attacked them.

Similarly, have you watched the videos where police were slashing the sidewalls of a bunch of parked empty rental cars? They claimed it was to prevent them being used as weapons and that they saw gasoline or something in them. But earlier that day some journalists had said "these are our cars. is it OK to park them here". Also, if they were really afraid of the cars being driven over people, they'd just deflate the tires by removing the valve core. The only reason to slash sidewalls is to extract punishment on someone.

There's also a video out there where they shot at someone in his home because they could see that he was filming them.

I seems that the 'attack the people videoing us' is either a new or much more widespread tactic than before. Why are they afraid of accountability? (I mean the answer is clear: they've been beating up innocent people for years, but now it's captured on video and rather than stopping the bad behavior, they get angry at the photographers!)
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Re: Minneapolis burning

Postby Alphabet » Sat Jul 18, 2020 7:50 pm

mb wrote:The CNN reporters claimed (and I haven't watched all of it, but see no reason to disbelieve) that their location was determined *by previous discussion with police*. As in, they did exactly what you think they should have done. Then different ones came and attacked them.


If this is actually the case, then this is on either the CNN field producer (I'm not sure the exact term CNN uses.) and/or their security manager.

Again in my situation: I realized that shifts and units change. In my initial contact with the white shirt, (This was Baltimore, so I don't know if other cities use different terminology for the Lt or Senior Sgt who stands in front of the skirmish line in nothing but normal duty kit.) I asked him about adjoining units, and protocol for press on the move. He appreciated that I understood the situation enough to ask, and was given his personal mobile number in case my herd of cats got jammed up by police in a different part of the city. Not ONCE in any "encounter" with the police did we get jammed up, told not to film, whatever. The only physical danger we encountered was from thugs when my crew tried launching a drone to film an aerial shot of where Freddy Grey lived.


I've done the exact same thing overseas, hand holding journalists in combat zones. It's called being on their radar, and giving them one less headache. 5 minutes of chit chat and you avoid getting a JDAM fired at your clients because no one knows who you are, or getting a baton on your neck.

Common sense and street smarts used to be a thing. Operating within that doesn't mean one is bowing down to the 4th Reich.


And if anyone here wants to get testy with me about being a bootlicker, I have a history here of being radically opposed to the militarization of the police. I even own a first edition of "Rise of the Warrior Cop". So, fuck you in advance.
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Re: Minneapolis burning

Postby mb » Sun Jul 19, 2020 2:21 am

It seems a few things have changed in the past 5 years. One is that many news crews are now just one person, maybe two--so there's no security manager or whatnot. I don't know if that's true in protests too, but plenty of the people videod getting attacked by police are small/solo crews.

The other is again the intentional large scale *targeting* of journalists. Even just a few years ago it was rare to hurt journalists even just with ID. Now, they know exactly who the journalists are (again, some have provided ID in advance) and they are the *first* to get attacked. This is not fear that it's a random assailant--it's a target. Some of the videos out of NYC are white shirts pointing at easy to ID legal observers and journalists.

BTW, what the CNN crew said was "we can move back to where you like... We are getting out of your way... Wherever you want us, we will go.". What else were they supposed to do at that point? Following an officer's order is not supposed to mean getting arrested.

Is it good that journalists need some sort of fixer or hand-holding now in situations which are not even close to riots?
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Re: Minneapolis burning

Postby Alphabet » Sun Jul 19, 2020 3:39 am

mb wrote:It seems a few things have changed in the past 5 years. One is that many news crews are now just one person, maybe two--so there's no security manager or whatnot. I don't know if that's true in protests too, but plenty of the people videod getting attacked by police are small/solo crews.

The other is again the intentional large scale *targeting* of journalists. Even just a few years ago it was rare to hurt journalists even just with ID. Now, they know exactly who the journalists are (again, some have provided ID in advance) and they are the *first* to get attacked. This is not fear that it's a random assailant--it's a target. Some of the videos out of NYC are white shirts pointing at easy to ID legal observers and journalists.

BTW, what the CNN crew said was "we can move back to where you like... We are getting out of your way... Wherever you want us, we will go.". What else were they supposed to do at that point? Following an officer's order is not supposed to mean getting arrested.

Is it good that journalists need some sort of fixer or hand-holding now in situations which are not even close to riots?



Do you have auto insurance? I'm guessing yes, because you realize that there are idiots out there, and shit happens. Apparently media outlets also acknowledge this, which is why they hire handlers. This is no great conspiracy to murder journalists.

I'm also curious about your skill set and experience that makes you an expert on the very moment "not even close to being a riot", becomes a riot.

Still waiting on the entire video of the incident.
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Re: Minneapolis burning

Postby mb » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:10 pm

CNN Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNuzzVpDZTY

Again, If a reporter ends up getting swept as part of a larger sweep or crowd, that's 'shit happens'. And that's certainly happening occasionally too. But not the same as people being singled out and targeted.

An article... which talks about the increase, and also offers some ideas as to why. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/ ... s-protests
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Re: Minneapolis burning

Postby Alphabet » Sun Jul 19, 2020 6:35 pm

mb wrote:CNN Video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aNuzzVpDZTY

Again, If a reporter ends up getting swept as part of a larger sweep or crowd, that's 'shit happens'. And that's certainly happening occasionally too. But not the same as people being singled out and targeted.

An article... which talks about the increase, and also offers some ideas as to why. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2020/ ... s-protests



At 1:42 he claims "we walked away", Which they clearly didn't, per the video. He also has some trouble with the difference between local and state law enforcement.

We also see a rioter early on in the video, which is what initiated the police response.

I'm not trying to be difficult here. But this situation is not passing the smell test at all.


That being said, if this was an illegal and directed detention, I hope all of the officers involved are fired and lose all benefits.
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